Episode #35 :

Ruan Marinho

Growing your business with Digital Marketing with Ruan Marinho | Ep. 35

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Ruan Marinho is the founder of DeveloMark, a search engine optimization specialty agency that works with small businesses to improve traffic, rankings, and generate more leads. On today’s podcast Ruan shares how he got his start in the digital media industry, grew his youtube channel, and fostered an autonomous work environment. 

DeveloMark

In this week’s podcast listeners will learn about Develomark. Along many things, DeveloMark specializes in doing a program for small businesses by improving traffic, rankings and generating more leads in digital marketing (websites and social media). DeveloMark is a team made up of 14 employees and mainly focused on their specific product/service. Sticking to one thing that the team becomes experts on and at is Marinho’s core competency. DeveloMark takes over their clients sites, gives them content, and provide all services to them.

Youtube Kick Off 

Marinho got involved with Facebook advertising and created an ametuer how-to YouTube video. He claims it was not intentional, it was when he was learning how to do fb advertising and randomly decided he wanted to make a Youtube video which actually till this day has over 1 million views. He explains that when you shoot low quality videos, people feel more connected to you. He also states that how-to videos get a lot of attention, so he decided to continue with that. Marinho’s goal when making these videos is to show people stuff without fearing competition.

Highlights from this episode:

» 1:309:22 – What is Develomark?
» 11:2014:02 – Entrepreneurs Don’t Like School
» 14:1317:30 – Personal & Professional Development
» 18:1725:26 – Investing in Your Employees & Work Space
» 25:2926:11 – Scott’s Background
» 26:5629:52 – Andrew Luck Retires
» 30:0033:03 – Hasbro Acquires Death Row Record Label
» 33:1135:48 – CBD Infused Textiles
» 35:5540:01 – Ariana Grande Sues Forever 21
» 40:0842:41 – Michigan Bans Flavored E-Cigs

Transcript

00:06 Scott Johnson: Welcome to The Mack Talks, everybody. I am your host, Scott Johnson, my co-host to my right, Chase Hutchison.

00:13 Chase Hutchison: Good morning, guys.

00:14 SJ: Chase, tell our listener… Our listeners, ’cause we have more than one.

[chuckle]

00:22 SJ: And our guest, what our program is all about.

00:23 CH: If you’re a business owner, entrepreneur, or community leader, The Mack Talks are the vehicle that bring you the stories that you need to hear.

00:31 SJ: That’s right, and today we have one of our own people in the building, we have a digital marketer in the building.

[chuckle]

00:39 SJ: So, Chase, why don’t you go ahead and give a little intro for our guest?

00:42 CH: Alright, on this episode of The Mack Talks entrepreneurial therapy session, we have Ruan Marinho on the podcast. Ruan is the founder of Develomark, his own digital marketing agency in Southington, Connecticut that works with small businesses to increase their website traffic and rankings. He’s in the same industry as us, so this is gonna be a super fun episode. Hopefully, we can get some insights into the digital marketing agency from our discussion today. Ruan, thanks so much for joining us. How you’re doing?

01:13 Ruan Marinho: Thank you for having me.

01:14 CH: How’s it going?

01:15 RM: It’s going good.

01:15 CH: Good, great.

01:16 SJ: It’s great to be able to have somebody, like I was just saying, from our own kind of industry and stuff like that. So, tell us a little bit about your agency, what you guys kinda specialize in, how many guys you got, and kinda how you got into it.

01:29 RM: Yeah. So Develomark, I started it three years ago, and the thought process behind it was “develop your marketing”. But I didn’t want my name to be that long.

01:37 SJ: Yeah. [chuckle]

01:38 RM: So I pushed it down and just made it one name. And we really specialize in doing a program for contractors that involves taking their website, doing their SEO, their pay per click, stuff like that. I also have a YouTube channel, which drives a lot of our sales and leads.

01:54 SJ: Nice.

01:54 RM: Which I’m very thankful for, and I actually created it on accident, believe it or not.

01:58 SJ: Yeah.

02:00 RM: But Develomark, we have a small office in Southington, we got about 14 guys. 14 guys and girls at the office. Some part-time, some full-time.

02:07 SJ: Awesome.

02:08 RM: But, mainly, we’re focused on our product. So I’m the only biz dev person there. So I’m the only person that’s kinda going out and about and growing the business. And, yet, everybody else is perfecting the product. So, yeah, that’s a little bit about DeveloMark and we’re striving. We’re trying to stick within what we know, ’cause, as you know, if you do too much, you don’t get good at one thing. So we stick to that one thing, and we’re getting really good at it, which is getting us more recognition and stuff like that.

02:35 SJ: So you’re doing Google AdWords, SEO, basically those type of services for the contractors, right?

02:41 RM: Yeah, the program, we take over the site, we give them content, we do everything along the lines of a really low-cost program, and then we provide all of the services either inclusive, which is most of the time, or a la cart etcetera.

02:55 SJ: Okay.

02:55 RM: So, when a customer signs up with us, they get a website that’s high-performing, beautifully designed, and then they get traffic, and all of this other good stuff going to the site. And it’s really nice, because, as you guys probably know, if you’re a la cart, people don’t wanna use two different agencies for two different things.

03:11 SJ: Yeah.

03:11 RM: So I’ve tried to pick people, handpicked, specialized in just one thing. This way we’re providing the best results and services.

03:17 SJ: Yep, that’s exactly what we do as well. [chuckle]

03:19 RM: Yeah.

03:20 SJ: Same concept, yeah.

03:21 RM: You guys target contractors?

03:25 SJ: No, we actually… That’s probably the least of the type of business, we have a couple of contractors, but we’ve kind of really found a niche with… Inside of medical.

03:32 RM: Interesting.

03:32 SJ: So we branched out within law and medical. So we have Mac Media Group which is our standard small business agency, and then we have Mac Media Medical, and then we have Mac Media Law. And then we have Mack Media non-profit as well. So we do lots of different non-profits also, but they obviously, they all dump into the same Mack Media Group, but we just have separate domains set up. But, obviously, we follow the same model ’cause you really have to… You have to have people that are specialized in doing one thing, and keep doing it all day long ’cause they’re really good at it. So I find that really interesting. Quick question for you though, so tell us a little about your YouTube, how did you get such a following? How did you kinda stumble upon it like you were mentioning?

04:16 RM: It’s so crazy because I learned how to do Facebook advertising few years ago, probably four or five years ago, and I put up a video on YouTube, and literally the most amateur video in the world. It’s like a 20 minute video.

04:31 SJ: Those are the ones, usually.

04:32 RM: And I don’t know why, but maybe it’s because there was no other agenda besides actually trying to show people what to do.

04:37 SJ: Yeah.

04:38 RM: And that first video that I ever made now has a 1,100,000 views.

04:41 SJ: Nice.

04:42 RM: And I was like, “What the hell is going on?”

04:45 SJ: Yeah.

04:45 RM: And then I started posting more, and more, and more, and what started happening was people started to catch on. I got a good personality on there. I crack jokes and do stuff like that.

04:55 SJ: Yeah. I like it.

04:57 RM: Yeah, what YouTube has been able to do with our traffic and our website is just extraordinary. And I’m sure you guys can agree.

05:03 SJ: Yeah.

05:04 RM: So I started making these videos, really quick iPhone videos, no high production. That’s why when I came in here today I was like, “Holy crap, this is a nice setup.”

[laughter]

05:13 RM: Because I’m used to the phone, and just spitting out what I know, and it caught on, and people like that style. I don’t know if it’s because when you shoot low quality video people feel more connected to you, because it’s kinda more personable, rather than just high quality.

05:25 SJ: Yeah, I think that has something behind that.

05:29 RM: Yeah, definitely has something to do with it. So I started creating how to create a Facebook Ad, how to do a local SEO, how to do anything inside of my vertical, right? And if you’re a business owner, like a doctor, they should be creating videos like, “How to lose weight without doing this. How to do this without this.” And those “how to” videos really get a lot of exposure if you just do them right and follow the protocol with the algorithms. So we figured out how to play to YouTube’s algorithms to make our videos get shared more and have more watch time, which is a direct ranking factor in YouTube.

05:58 SJ: Yep.

05:58 RM: And the beauty of YouTube compared to something like Google, is, Google, you’re only getting somebody when they search, or when you’re advertising to them.

06:05 SJ: Yeah, YouTube, it’ll populate it.

06:06 RM: It shares it. And it’s like, once you get a video that’s in that little recommended section, which I’m really good at doing for myself and some clients, once you get in that little recommended section, now YouTube’s promoting the crap out of it. And the best part is I get paid for it.

06:18 SJ: Yeah, ’cause you have it monetized.

06:20 RM: You get the ad sense.

06:21 SJ: Yeah.

06:21 RM: So, YouTube, it’s changed my life and my business. So right now we’re at 80,000 subscribers.

06:27 SJ: Okay. Nice.

06:27 RM: And it’s all due to my willingness to show people stuff without being scared of competition, or something like that.

06:35 SJ: I agree with that 100%, and that’s something that I know you know you have the conversation with clients, especially contractors. Especially contractors. Where they’re like, “I’m not telling anybody my secret.” And it’s like, “No, your secret that you have, trust me, somebody else probably knows it, but if you just show it to somebody, they’re still not… They’re gonna… It’s gonna lead to business for you. And I know that’s really hard to understand, but just trust me.” But I agree with you 100%. Those type of videos are the ones that… And I think ’cause they come across as not flashy, and they come across as, “Oh, this is just a regular person telling me something.” And I think that’s why you get that good… And a lot of those videos do. And that’s why you’re like, “How the hell does this video have this many views?” When you see the way that it’s done.

07:20 RM: It’s crazy.

07:21 SJ: But that’s the human nature to go to that, I think, right? I mean, obviously, it’s working for you.

07:25 RM: Yeah, and you’ll see YouTubers that have this really high quality production, and then they get 50 views.

07:30 SJ: Yeah.

07:31 RM: And then there’s a direct correlation into that, and people feel like there’s a hidden agenda when you have all of the high quality production. Obviously not in a setting like this.

07:39 SJ: Yeah, it’s different. Yeah.

07:40 RM: But someone at home trying to make money selling people stupid courses online, right? That’s when you kinda know they have an agenda, so you click off and it just sounds sales-y. So all of my videos, I never pitch anything, ever. I don’t even tell them to like and subscribe. Just the reciprocity of giving value, eventually they subscribe, and they watch my stuff, and then eventually purchase what we have to sell.

08:00 SJ: That’s great.

08:00 RM: Yeah.

08:01 SJ: So tell us, have you always been kind of an entrepreneur? When did you… How long have you been in business for did you say?

08:08 RM: We’ve been in business for three years.

08:09 SJ: Okay. And what did you do before that?

08:11 RM: Before that I was working a sales job. I was at Comcast doing door-to-door. I probably knocked on this door before.

[laughter]

08:18 RM: I’m not kidding, ’cause I…

08:18 SJ: Well, you can’t get Comcast in this area.

08:20 RM: Oh, is that right?

08:21 SJ: So you would have had to work for Charter.

08:23 RM: Oh, is it Charter?

08:24 SJ: Yeah, yeah.

08:24 RM: Because we had a Danbury office over there. Maybe it’s over by Brewster, New York, around that area.

08:29 SJ: I think it’s right where the cut-off might be.

08:30 RM: Yeah.

08:30 SJ: Yeah, yeah.

08:31 RM: So I was knocking doors there, and I was like, “Why the hell am I doing this?” I’m going into a business and nobody wants to hear from me, nobody cares.

08:38 SJ: Did you go to college?

08:39 CH: I did not go to college, no. I’m actually looking into some colleges right now.

08:43 SJ: Okay.

08:44 RM: But I was knocking at a door and nobody wanted me there. And I was like, “Wait, I need to be the other way around. I need to be that consultant that people are like, ‘Thank God you’re here for my business. Thank God that you showed up today. We need your help, we have the money, we trust you.'” But at Comcast you were just another fly. You were just like, “Hey, can I sell you something?” So people would get mad, they would say insults. Six months, I was out. And then I started doing some digital marketing, stuff that I was learning at Comcast, failed miserably, build up a ton of credit card debt. And then was able to obviously get a few small accounts, people paying me. Going to local networking events, stuff like that. I have always had the entrepreneurship in my heart, I read every single day.

09:23 RM: I really focus on personal development. And, as you guys know, it’s so critical in business. So I’ve always had it in me, and, eventually, I hated becoming the person that was not the consultant. And I like the consultative approach because it makes you feel better, as if you’re giving something back to the world and making money with it too.

09:41 SJ: Yeah, no, that’s awesome man. That’s awesome. Love to hear it, love to hear it.

09:44 CH: Well, there’s an economic principle that I learned about in college that was called obliquity, and it’s what the… I forget their last name, but the people that developed or built Walmart used to develop their business. They weren’t about making money. They said, “Our goal is not to make money, our goal is to create the best supermarket store in the entire country at the lowest price. And if we can achieve that, then obliquity comes in.” And all the stuff that you were trying to do, provide for your family and become rich, become wealthy, influential, all of those things come with that. And so that’s what I feel like people respond to best in business, is just that, like you’re saying, just give them the secret. Because, honestly, like you were saying, most of these people, they won’t have the resources or the will power and desire to actually execute. So when you give people that secret, then they’re gonna come back for more. And all of sudden you’re the wellspring of knowledge that everybody’s drawing from, and that’s how you build your business. And I think that’s the core principle of your videos that you do, is that it’s really there’s no production value, there’s no… It’s like Sean and I found… It’s just like, “Hey, I just wanna tell you what’s gonna work for you.” And that’s what brings in all the clients. So that’s what immediately drew me to invite you on the show and be like, “I gotta talk to this guy, because clearly he understands this.”

11:11 RM: Yeah.

11:11 CH: So I guess that leads me to my next… Were you always… You don’t have a degree from college, but how did you do in school? ‘Cause I feel like true entrepreneurs, they don’t like school. School and entrepreneurship don’t mesh well.

11:28 SJ: Can get boring. I who didn’t go to college and I’m not very good at school, I was not good at school. Just to let you know, if it makes a difference at all for you.

11:35 RM: Yeah, no, I get that. And it’s such a pro and con, because the schools that I wanna go to are like Harvard. And the problem with those schools is they’re way too expensive. But the pro is you’re dealing with professors that don’t have a small accounting business in the town, you’re dealing with the founder of LinkedIn, right? He’s teaching this semester. And when you get that type of information, you can’t find it anywhere else. He’s not on YouTube preaching selling a course. He’s giving back. So I’m in a Harvard online college class now and it was $4500 for one class. And it’s worth it because I get six weeks with the founder of LinkedIn, and it’s a paneling so we get to talk to each other. And I did terrible in school, but that’s because I wasn’t mature yet. I was an immature kid that just wanted to get by. And then thankfully things panned out. I’m so grateful for everything in my life, ’cause things panned out, I found what I love to do very quick, which is sales. And then I started doing it. So I was never really good at school, but I think as I got older… I used to say, “Screw college, I hate college,” this and this, but that’s just an immature thing to say.

12:36 RM: I think college provides a lot of value for a lot of people, and the networking opportunities, especially in our type of business, is immense. You’re in class with a bunch of other people that wanna grow their own business. So for us that generates opportunities to sell website, SEO, whatever it may be. And it’s funny you mentioned the Sam Walton thing, owner of Walmart, because his ego… He didn’t have an ego, right? He was just trying to literally build the best supermarket in the world. So he was found at a Brazilian supermarket measuring the tape side by side in their aisles to see if they knew something that he didn’t. And that type of non-egotistic approach to business is what created the multi-billion dollar organization, which is just awesome. But did terrible in school. I’m going back…

13:14 SJ: When you’re learning something that you’re not super interested in. Like now…

13:19 RM: Like Shakespeare.

13:20 SJ: Yeah, yeah.

13:20 RM: Like, “What am I doing learning Shakespeare?”

13:22 SJ: But now you’re more mature, you really wanna learn this, you wanna be a sponge, you know what your path is.

13:27 RM: Exactly.

13:28 SJ: So it’s like…

[chuckle]

13:30 RM: Exactly.

13:30 SJ: Yeah, it’s…

13:31 RM: And you guys have… You guys learn from somewhere too, right?

13:33 SJ: Yeah, yeah. Always, always learning, right? Always have to keep learning, so…

13:36 RM: And you’re right, that’s what it is. I’m not gonna go to school and take Shakespeare classes, that’s just not what I like to do. I like that stuff, but…

13:43 CH: And if you’re gonna go, go with a purpose. Know what you wanna study, or know that I’m here for this reason.

13:48 RM: Correct.

13:49 CH: That’s what I think people make the mistake of, is just going because people tell them to go.

13:52 SJ: And you don’t know that at 19?

13:54 CH: No.

13:54 SJ: At all.

13:55 CH: You have no idea.

13:56 RM: You have no idea. So I’m glad I waited, ’cause now I’m ready to invest money into it, and now I know exactly what I want.

14:02 SJ: Yeah. No, that’s awesome, that’s awesome. So I know you mentioned Larry, he was on our show. I know you mentioned the School of Entrepreneurship. I know you said you work with him sometimes within there. But besides Larry, who are some of the other professionals that you look up to? Digital marketers, or just influencers within side of business.

14:22 RM: There’s two key people that I look at right now that produce content. Some people I look at, they don’t produce content, which is really frustrating. Like the owner of Scorpion. I’m sure you guys know Scorpion, Rustin Cretz.

14:32 SJ: Yeah, yeah.

14:33 RM: He doesn’t produce anything. So it’s like, it’s very difficult to find out what he’s doing. But when you look at people like Larry, he puts out so much free value, you can kinda start to see where he’s headed. And because we are so familiar with digital marketing, I can find out the little things that he’s doing that’s right under people’s noses, right?

14:50 SJ: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

14:50 RM: Like creating homematch.com, which is a directory site that he’s starting to build up to compete with Home Advisor. And those little types of things that is kind of under your nose is really good to research these types of people. So two people that I literally look at right now is a gentleman, he’s on YouTube, his name is Sam Ovens. I’m not sure if you guys have heard of Sam Ovens?

15:05 SJ: No, I haven’t heard of him.

15:06 RM: He’s all about getting better sleep, he’s all about performance optimization, working less hours per day, not The 4-Hour Workweek, but really a personal development standpoint. I purchased an Oura Ring, which is gonna tell me how much deep sleep I’m getting every single night, because everything starts with your sleep. So he goes on and puts out free content, gets thousands of views. And that’s one person that I look at. And the next person locally is Larry. But there’s the guys that I look up to like Rustin Cretz, owner of Scorpion, and some of the bigger guys that just don’t produce anything.

15:39 SJ: Yeah.

15:39 RM: So it’s hard to see what they’re doing and, unfortunately, we have to do things like pay their agency to see what they’re doing.

15:45 SJ: Yeah. Yep.

15:46 RM: Those are the main two people that I look up to you right now. I look up to Larry for business, and then I look at Sam Ovens for professional personal development.

15:54 SJ: Nice.

15:54 RM: And just being more optimized throughout the day. ‘Cause if you work more, you’re only gonna get a certain more percentage. But if you work smarter, you’re gonna get a lot more percentage.

16:03 SJ: Yeah. Work smarter, not harder, right? [chuckle]

16:05 RM: Exactly, exactly. And it’s good to look at Larry and Sam ’cause they mix the both. Larry has worked extremely hard for everything he has.

16:13 SJ: Yeah, amazing story, amazing story.

16:15 RM: Crazy.

16:15 SJ: So what is it that you like to do in your free time?

16:18 RM: I like to skateboard.

16:19 SJ: Oh, nice.

16:20 RM: I’m actually really good at skateboarding.

16:21 SJ: That’s cool.

16:22 RM: It’s weird. I like to play drums, pretty good at drums. I like anything that’s on the extreme. So I don’t like the regular sports like soccer or basketball.

16:32 SJ: You like snowboarding?

16:32 RM: Yeah, I like snowboarding.

16:33 SJ: You have to go tear it up with this guy.

16:34 CH: Yeah. I love that shit too. Yeah, yeah.

[laughter]

16:38 SJ: I always tell him though, he’s like… I’m like, “Dude, wear your helmet, man? You’re doing too good at work to go hurt yourself. Don’t do any dumb shit.”

[chuckle]

16:46 CH: I always felt that… And I was having this conversation with my dad too. It’s just like, I always feel like picking up new skills and learning new things is a great way to get your brain to start to be more elastic. And so when you’re confronted with something that you don’t understand or don’t know how to accomplish, your brain is better able to expand to reach those goals. So me and Scott just went and played tennis the other day, I picked up snowboarding two years ago after 11 years of skiing. When I was in high school, I picked up wrestling my freshman year, ended up becoming captain my senior year. It was a sport that if you told me that I was gonna do that when I was younger, I would have been like, “There’s no way I’m ever doing that.” But it’s just the way that my… I’m curious, and I wanna learn new things, and even sales is something that my dad was in, but I didn’t have a distinct interest in sales, I didn’t go to school for sales. But then when I started doing it, started learning it, started learning business operations, all of a sudden now I’m obsessed with it. And I can’t consume enough content about marketing, and entrepreneurs, and business, and operations. I love it.

17:55 SJ: Don’t forget about your bro content too.

17:56 CH: Yeah.

17:56 SJ: You’re more to consume bro content.

17:57 CH: Yeah.

[laughter]

18:00 CH: We also love to…

18:00 SJ: We just link videos back and forth to each other all weekend, that stuff is hilarious.

18:02 RM: Oh, I love bro content.

18:04 SJ: Yeah. [chuckle]

18:05 CH: Key to us, like us performing well, is us having those moments and stuff. Just sharing stuff that we think is funny and that’s what’s so important about this… The whole operation is…

18:17 SJ: Let me tell you a little bit about how we became a tandem here.

18:20 RM: Sure.

18:20 SJ: So he actually went through our internship program. And I had always struggled with… I’m sure you probably… Maybe you’ve encountered the same thing, if not, you probably will in the future. But I was looking for a great sales person. Somebody that could, obviously, not hang with me, but be within the realm of what I could do. I have a lot of awesome ideas and I also have a lot of sales. So I can’t execute a lot of those ideas, but I can tell you the idea. I just can’t hold your hand and make sure you do it along the way because I’m busy writing stuff up. So I would hire experienced sales reps in the industry, and every time they would try to skate on the base, basically, is what they would try to do.

19:00 RM: Of course.

19:00 SJ: And I’m the type of company… And I could see that within five seconds. I didn’t get to where I’ve gotten to without a college degree or even a high school diploma without being able to identify those types of things. So I’ve cycled through a lot of different sales guys. I had an ad at Indeed, and I was like, “I’m just gonna run this ad and I’m just gonna try to find somebody young that I can mold, and they’re not gonna know anything else.” And Chase came in, interviewed. He was doing the internship out there. He just finished the internship program. He interviewed and he started the next day. So he went through a rough little bootcamp period where he kinda had to learn the ins and the outs of how to do everything.

19:39 SJ: But, now, he’s worked his way up to VP of Business Development. He’s my right hand man and he’s heading towards an area where he is going to get equity with inside of the company if he keeps going the direction that he is going, which I know that he will. And, most importantly, he is the co-host of The Mac Talks. Most importantly. But, yeah, so that’s kind of a little bit of background about him and how we’ve kind of got together. And like you mentioned, we always do all kinds of stuff together. We watch fights together, we just went to a Phillies game over the weekend. So we’re always doing different types of things, we’re always trying to look what’s out there, and learn different things, and just keep building our entrepreneurial careers.

20:18 CH: Yeah. So tell us about your team and what you’ve done. You mentioned in the beginning of the podcast that team building is important. So, obviously, you recognize that. So tell us about how you built your team a little bit.

20:29 RM: I had a really big struggle growing my team because when I started I didn’t have the best personal habits. I was waking up late, I was being lazy, I was eating the wrong food, I was not sleeping well, I was just working like 13-hour days. And I’m sure we can all speak to that.

20:44 SJ: Yeah.

20:45 RM: So when I hired my first sales guy, the fruit doesn’t fall far from the tree. So he started doing some of the actions that I was doing. So I hired my first sales guy and just completely made a mistake, and he’s still with me today, he’s a wonderful guy, kind of my right hand man as well. And then, from there, I’ve learned that I gotta take my ego away, ’cause I am the owner of the business at the end of the day. I don’t like saying it. And I take my ego away and empower the other people and let them run. And there’s a great read in the Harvard Business Journal, it’s called, Building Yourself, and it’s a great, great book because it teaches you about how to communicate with people, how to take your ego away, and how to let people just run with it, and let them do their own thing and report back to you on what they’ve learned and what they’ve done, etcetera, and stuff like that. Obviously, that’s very dangerous for some businesses, you’re not gonna do that at a doctor’s office, but for our type of business, it’s pretty simple.

21:34 RM: So my team started with just Tom, and then, a year later, when I was second and a half year in business we just went on a hiring spree, because we had the demand for development, design, and copywriting. And so we started hiring these people, and I did the very similar thing, internship program to full hire. And we have two people going through an internship program right now, and it’s just taking the time to get the right people in. Like when you mentioned that you were looking for that right person, and you did your due diligence, spending the time to invest into this company, and spending the time to do that, that speaks volumes of you, because I’m sure you’ve had the same situation to where you hire somebody and they don’t call you back, or they show up late, or they show up early. Don’t hire those people, because they’re gonna become a cancer to the organization, and you can’t afford… One cancer, everybody’s cancer, right? Not literal cancer.

22:24 SJ: Yeah, yeah, I know, I know.

[chuckle]

22:26 SJ: I know what you’re saying.

22:28 RM: So the team-building really came from me first, and then it dripped down to the organization. So, I’m always the one earliest at the office, I’m always the one to leave late, and that impression gets very, very, very, very… It’s communicated directly. You guys have a wonderful office space here.

22:43 SJ: Yeah, thank you.

22:44 RM: And every time a staff member walks into the office space, you reconfirm their beliefs that you’re the business that they’re gonna build a career in. So our office was a piece of crap, we had the worst walls, the worst carpets. It stunk like Subways [22:55] ____ Subway. So we ripped everything up, put hardware floors, invested in the walls, invested in big TVs, invested in multiple conference rooms and stuff like that, and now people have a physical belief that they’re gonna grow a career within this company, giving them the solid attitude to stay here and actually do work. ‘Cause if you feel like you’re gonna lose your job next week, you’re not gonna do great work, you’re gonna wanna leave.

23:14 SJ: Yeah, exactly, and if you feel the company is not gonna give, [chuckle] company is not gonna be there, not going in the right direction, obviously, same thing.

23:20 RM: And that’s what I felt like when I walked into our old space. So, for me, cosmetic is a big thing, because when people see something, they don’t see their belief in it, they see what’s cosmetic. Even when you meet somebody, the first thing they see is like, what your lips look like, what does your head look like, what are you wearing. And I invest in those things inside of my business just because I know that’s what people see first impressions. Even clients.

23:41 SJ: It’s funny that you say that, because, as you can tell, we have a ton of wall space out there. And moving into this office was a big expenditure, and I couldn’t just start hanging stuff right away. So, slowly… But I knew I had to have stuff on the walls for exactly the reason why you’re saying. I need that…

23:57 RM: Yeah, when I went to the bathroom, I noticed the Mack Media logo right on it, and that’s something where a staff member, when they’re going to the bathroom even, those little touch points, they’re like, “Oh, wow, okay. There’s our company. Our company.” Not the company I work for, our company.

24:09 SJ: Yeah, I think the staff here though would say maybe tone it down with some of the Philadelphia Eagles stuff.

[chuckle]

24:15 SJ: And some of the Philadelphia Phillies stuff. Maybe just bring it down a level maybe. But, other than that, I mix it in with lots of great quotes. I’ve got Tony Robbins’ quote, Gary V quotes all over the walls. But it’s funny because I invested in this stuff that… I invest in these signs and these pictures and these different messages and the word-wall that I have over there for the exact reason why you’re saying. See that trim right there? Do you know how long it took for me to paint that green trim all the way around this whole building? But it’s for the reason that you just mentioned. And that’s why I do those types of things. It’s for that reason. So I think it’s awesome.

24:52 RM: And it’s funny, I hired an Account Manager on salary, and I came in one day, and this was my probably like the third hire. I came in one day and I was wearing a Dragon Ball Z hoodie and sweat pants. And the first thing she said, she looked at me and she goes, “You’re wearing a Dragon Ball Z hoodie?” Next day I bought hundreds of suit jackets. [chuckle] And I started dressing up every single day, ’cause I noticed she noticed it right away. And, no, the trim looks great. Honestly, we’re probably gonna do the same thing. [chuckle]

25:22 SJ: Nice, nice.

25:22 RM: It looks really good.

25:22 SJ: Yeah, we’ll give you a tour around and show you everything. I got Eagle stuff in places you can’t even imagine in this place.

25:27 RM: I’m guessing you’re an Eagle’s fan?

25:28 SJ: Yeah, diehard. Well, I’m from Delaware originally. So when you live in Delaware, it’s like Philadelphia or Baltimore just like how here it’s New York or Boston.

25:36 RM: When you were a kid?

25:37 SJ: Yeah, when I was a kid, yeah. I moved here when I was probably eighth grade. I moved to Southbury, and then I moved to Danbury when I was 18, started my first business which was called Vision Designs, which is screen printing, embroidery, and signs. Started that when I was 19.

25:53 RM: So do you make your own signs and signage in here?

25:55 SJ: No, because I’m out of the industry, but I have all the connections and I still know my other partner. I know my partners. I have a building with them as well. So I know what I’m supposed to pay for it, I know how to get good deals on it. Just because I know what the cost is on it, and I know a lot of people in the industry. But hey man, listen, awesome having you on. I think that we could probably go another couple of hours if we had to. Or if we had the time to. But I gotta jump on a call after this and I wanna make sure we definitely get in Chase’s favorite segment, which is…

26:26 CH: It’s everybody’s favorite segment.

26:27 SJ: Mack Move or Wack Move, where we read through some topics, some business topics that are kind of in mainstream media, not always directly business related, but always has some sort of a business feel to it. You will get your trusty sign to be able to determine whether you think it’s a Mack move or a wack move. And Chaseopherd, why don’t you go ahead and pop off that first mack move or wack move?

26:56 CH: Alright, first topic is Andrew Luck retires at 29 years old giving up millions of dollars in salary and potential sponsorships. I know that this has been a big topic in the news, the way that it relates to businesses. It’s really a decision of quality of life over money. Or payment, or whatever. You’re making a decision based upon your own health and your own wellbeing. And a lot of people make decisions every day in business of like, “I’m gonna work 13 hours in the office today and eat McDonald’s because… ” You know I mean? “I’m just gonna eat… I’m gonna sacrifice my health.” And the question is mack move or wack move? Is his retirement a mack move or a wack move?

27:40 SJ: I’m going to say that it is a mack move. Number one because he doesn’t play for the Eagles, so it doesn’t affect me at all.

[laughter]

27:48 SJ: I might have a little bit of a different say in it depending. But it’s his life, let him do what he wants. I know the timing really wasn’t so great because of the fact that the season is getting ready to start. I don’t think that he planned for that to happen. I think that a lot of these players in the past they didn’t know what was happening to them. They know now. There are people that are walking around in pain all day long. He got a lot of money. I know he left a lot of money on the table. He got a lot of money.

28:16 CH: He did.

28:16 SJ: He’s a smart guy. He went to Stanford, right?

28:19 CH: Yup.

28:19 SJ: He’s a smart guy. So I’m gonna say wack move, I think it’s a smart move on his part. I go to a wack move. A mack move, sorry.

28:25 RM: Mack move. I was gonna say.

28:25 SJ: Mack move. Sorry, sorry. What do you got?

28:30 RM: He’s a football player?

28:31 SJ: Yeah, he’s a football player. And he played seven seasons. But he had a lot… He had a period of time where he missed a full season and he just rehabbed his shoulder. He’s basically saying, “I don’t enjoy the game anymore. I’ve been stuck in this rehab process.” And he basically retired.

28:47 RM: Quick question, is his team gonna be affected by it?

28:49 CH: Yes.

28:50 SJ: Yes.

28:51 RM: I’m gonna say wack move.

28:53 CH: Yes, yes.

[laughter]

28:53 SJ: Alright.

28:54 CH: Because, this is the thing, it’s like, you were only saying all the reasons why it’s a mack move when you were describing the situation, but there’s a lot of reasons why it’s also a wack move. Ultimately, I agree with the thing, like it’s your life, it’s your decision. You gotta make that choice.

29:10 RM: And his health and everything like that.

29:11 CH: And all of that. I agree with that. It’s just the way this came out and right before the season. Think about the fans.

29:19 SJ: I know, but he didn’t…

29:19 CH: He’s this high… He’s 29 years old.

29:21 SJ: His health is more important.

29:21 CH: Quarterbacks are playing into their 40s nowadays.

29:25 RM: Yeah. How old is he?

29:25 CH: With the medicine that we have now. He’s 29.

29:28 RM: He’s 29?

29:28 CH: He’s 29 years old.

29:30 SJ: Yeah. Seventh season.

29:30 RM: Oh, wack move.

29:31 SJ: Yeah.

[laughter]

29:33 CH: I got him over to the dark side.

29:34 RM: That’s so funny. Chase [29:35] ____.

[overlapping conversation]

29:35 CH: Do it right. Do it right. Wait till he’s… Wait one more year. Play one more year and then plan this out more. I feel like he just went, “I can’t play anymore.”

29:47 SJ: Like I said, he doesn’t play for the Eagles, so I don’t have that emotional tie.

29:50 RM: What does he play for?

29:52 SJ: He plays for Colts.

29:52 RM: Oh, okay.

29:53 SJ: Yeah. Alright, Chase. Topic number two.

29:57 CH: Topic number two. This is a weird one. Toymaker Hasbro. You guys are familiar?

30:02 RM: Very familiar. I like this one.

30:03 CH: Okay, Toymaker Hasbro acquires gangster rap label of Death Row Records originally started by Suge Knight, right, back in the ’90s, in an attempt to grow a stable of family friendly entertainment. It was a $4 billion deal.

30:20 SJ: Yeah, but they’re wrapped up in another company though. You have to disclose that.

30:22 CH: Let me explain. Yeah. Entertainment One was the company that they purchased, which is just a conglomerate of all these different… Whether it’s music. They actually own Peppa Pig. That’s a smash hit kids show.

30:35 SJ: But the people that own Peppa Pig own…

30:39 CH: It’s the same company that owns Peppa Pig that owns Death Row Records.

30:41 SJ: Oh, okay.

30:41 CH: Isn’t that weird? So they have a very diverse portfolio.

30:44 SJ: They already do have their foot in the… Yeah, okay.

30:46 CH: They have a diverse portfolio. Yeah, yeah. The real question of whether this is a mack move or a wack move is, is it a mack move or a wack move for the Toymaker to build its family-friendly brand by purchasing a company that owns Death Row Records, started by a guy who, by the way, ran people over with his car, murdered people.

31:07 SJ: Yes. I’m gonna go mack move for this reason. You make a lot of money with them Snoop Dogg tracks from back in the day. And if they own the licensing to that, there’s gonna be family fun for a long period of time. You know what I’m saying? You need revenue to make family fun. Now, if you’re gonna tell me that they’re gonna be doing some shady things with Death Row, like they’re gonna be performing concerts at schools, maybe not so much. Alright? But as far as that goes, I’m gonna go mack move. I think it’s funny. I think that it actually gives them a lot of publicity too, because I think it’s kind of funny. But I’m going mack move.

31:44 CH: Okay. Alright.

31:45 SJ: What do you got?

31:46 RM: I’m gonna say wack move only because I wanna disagree with Scott. No, I’m just kidding.

[laughter]

31:51 SJ: Because I’m gonna disagree with everything that he says.

31:54 RM: No, I’m gonna say wack move only because I wouldn’t be able to justify a $4 billion purchase into a record label. [32:03] ____ record label?

32:03 SJ: They’re wrapped up in a whole…

32:04 CH: It’s like I said, they’re a conglomerate of different artists company.

32:10 SJ: That’s just a piece of what they bought.

32:12 CH: Their record company is their creative company.

32:13 SJ: We’ve had that discussion before.

32:17 CH: You can’t do that.

32:18 RM: I’m gonna do this. Because it depends who’s on that label [32:19] ____.

32:20 SJ: You need more details is what you’re saying. You need more details.

32:23 CH: This is basically what it is. They bought a giant company that owns all this stuff that’s very valuable to them that they really, really want, but the one thing is they also own Death Row Record. So it’s like you’re getting the whole piece of a pie except… You’re getting the whole pie except one slice of the pie is like has poison in it.

[laughter]

32:40 CH: Yeah. So is it worth it?

32:42 SJ: It’s pretty funny though.

32:44 CH: Is it worth it to do that? And I would say mack move. Mack move, I think it is…

32:50 SJ: That’s Snoop Dog money revenue, bro. Those albums are still selling.

32:53 CH: They’re gonna be in movies forever. Yeah.

32:55 SJ: They’re still…

32:56 RM: And they’re probably gonna figure out how to integrate it with their games and their family entertainment. So it’s a half move for me.

[chuckle]

33:02 SJ: Alright. Topic three, Chase.

33:05 CH: Topic number three.

33:06 SJ: Always throw one of these in there.

33:06 CH: Also a weird one.

33:10 SJ: Acabada ProActiveWear and Devan Chemicals collaborated to create CBD-infused textiles with therapeutic benefits. So Acadaba is a… They make workout gear, and Devin make CBD oil, among other things. And they found a way to actually infuse the CBD into the clothes that you’re gonna wear. And the whole goal is to reduce inflammation that comes along with working out. Alright.

[chuckle]

33:41 SJ: Yeah, I’m gonna go mack move. But I have a lot of questions about this. I’m gonna go mack move ’cause in theory, it sounds great, but I’m also very far, like I said, Chase is my college educated co-host, I’m not college educated, but I have a… Just a really… How can this be done? It’s just weird to me. I don’t understand how it can be done. I feel like once you run it through the wash machine, and you beat the shit out of it, it’s gonna not work anymore. But, hey, I’m also all for… I love the mess… The idea is awesome, the idea is great. So I’m gonna go mack move on that.

34:17 CH: Okay.

34:18 RM: Yeah, I’m gonna go mack move. And the reason why I say that is that inflammation it’s one of the worst things in the world?

34:23 SJ: Yeah, it kills you.

34:24 RM: You literally…

34:25 SJ: The inflammation is what kills you.

34:26 RM: Actually kills you.

34:27 SJ: ‘Cause you constantly…

34:28 RM: Yeah, your brain is cloudy, you get more full, you look like a jiggly puff, and that’s what happens when you eat those types of foods. So I always do a non-inflammation diet. So I’ve never heard of that, I’ll probably be the one to test and report back to you guys, if it’s a [34:43] ____.

34:45 SJ: Yeah, yeah. ‘Cause my boy Nick Buyers he told me he wants to put a sauna in his house…

34:49 RM: Wow.

34:50 SJ: To cut down on his inflammation.

34:51 RM: Yeah.

34:52 SJ: Do you know what I mean? And that’s what it is. He says that…

34:53 RM: Who did you say?

34:54 SJ: My boy Nick Buyers, he’s up in Maine.

34:56 RM: Okay.

34:57 SJ: He’s also in this same industry, the CBD industry also, which is funny, he’s all about that. He knows something about that inflammation, he’s always… Get that inflammation, boy. Alright, so what do you gut?

35:06 RM: It’s critical.

35:10 CH: I gotta go just based upon the fact that I would never ever ever use it.

35:13 SJ: That’s ’cause you’re 24.

35:16 CH: I just don’t…

35:16 SJ: Wake up with sciatica, homie. Seriously.

35:18 CH: I don’t even know if this works, if it’s just snake oil in a suit, literally.

35:23 RM: True.

35:25 SJ: Yeah.

35:26 CH: I’m gonna have see. Plus I’ve taken CBD before, guys. And to be honest with you, the benefits are…

35:32 SJ: Well, you’re 24. You’re a spring chicken.

35:34 CH: I don’t really feel much.

35:36 SJ: Get up over 40.

35:37 CH: Yeah, yeah, yeah, alright, well…

35:39 SJ: We’ll revisit it in 10 years.

35:43 CH: Or next week.

35:43 RM: Or I’m gonna buy it. So I’ll let you guys know…

[overlapping conversation]

35:48 SJ: Nice. Alright, topic four, right?

35:51 CH: Yeah, topic number four. This one’s very interesting. Ariana Grande sues Forever21 who actually just declared bankruptcy as you know for $10 million over a look-alike ad campaign. She’s saying that they used her likeness to sell their products, and by likeness it means a girl who looks, dresses, acts exactly like Ariana Grande. And they knew that. And when they created the commercial. So she’s suing them for $10 million, which I’m assuming is… Now do you do this to a wounded bird. Do you step on it’s neck when it’s dying like that, and does she really need the money, or is it the principle of the likeness.

36:34 SJ: And how can you really, really… It’s such a really hard thing to prove. That’s a style. That’s a style. It’s a very… It’s just a really difficult thing to prove, and I’ll be honest with you, I see it every day with influencers and then TV. If you notice… What’s that dude’s name, Trey? I can’t remember his last name. That funny…

36:58 CH: Trey Kennedy.

37:01 SJ: Yeah, Trey Kennedy.

37:02 CH: He’s hilarious.

37:02 SJ: That dude, you’ll notice now they have actors on TV doing his shtick. Doing his shtick. I think they really do look at the influence and they try to mold to what’s working online.

37:13 CH: Yeah.

37:13 RM: Oh, yeah.

37:14 SJ: So, based upon that… I’d have to see the pictures. I’m looking at some of them. This girl… That one girl looks like she could be a black girl, so I don’t see… I get it, she’s got the little thing on her head with the pony tail, but…

37:28 CH: Where was this when last Halloween when every girl was Ariana Grande for Halloween? And then all the costumes, the dyed hair, all the hair stylist, everything, that was a look. And I didn’t see her suing anybody over… Like the hair dying company.

37:47 SJ: Well, she’s not gonna sue anybody with… Oh, yeah, I hear what you’re saying.

37:49 CH: What I’m saying is it’s a cultural wave, and there’s so many companies and people out there that are doing this, but maybe just not in a TV commercial.

37:57 SJ: Where the girl’s name similar to her name… [chuckle]

38:02 CH: Oriana…

38:03 SJ: This one’s a tough one for me because I don’t feel like you should be able to steal somebody’s brand, but I also think there’s a lot of gray and it’s really hard to prove it unless they were just…

38:12 RM: Especially with the internet.

38:12 SJ: Yeah.

38:13 RM: Tons of gray.

38:13 SJ: Yeah, so I’m gonna go wack move. Although I think this is going to help Forever21. So, are they going out of business or they just declared bankruptcy? They’re on the come back. They’re just gonna wipe that debt…

38:25 CH: No, they’re doing very poorly.

38:26 SJ: And then they’re gonna come back, or what are they going to do?

38:28 CH: They are doing very poorly.

38:29 SJ: Alright, well…

38:30 CH: They’re about to go out of business.

38:31 SJ: I think that that gives them… They probably have insurance for things like this, so, if anything, maybe it’s some good advertising. I don’t know.

38:36 RM: Yeah.

38:36 CH: That’s true.

38:37 SJ: I’m gonna go wack move.

38:37 CH: Okay.

38:37 RM: Yeah, I’m gonna go wack move too. And the only reason I say that is because influencers are way too entitled about everything that they do. You’re gonna to sue a company that’s already failing for 10 million? I think there’s a vengeance or a vendetta there. And their lawyers are looking for ways to make money from using their name. So the lawyers are probably the ones that told her about the idea and she might have gotten upset about it, whatever, but at the end of the day, Ariana is worth $700 million. She doesn’t need…

39:03 SJ: Yeah, I know, she doesn’t really need that.

39:04 RM: 10 million… But I think it’s a message to put out there for other companies to make sure they work with the real deal. So that is kind of my mack move on that. Because you look at brands like Fashion Nova, which has a direct reason as to why Forever21 is going down, and they actually hire the real deal. They’ll hire Kim K for 500 grand and put her in an ad. So I’m gonna go wack move mostly, but just because of Ariana Grande’s status. And I could see if she was treated poorly or if something was like that, but at the end of the day, it’s not her in the video, it’s not a replica of her, it’s not a robot of her, it’s another person that looks like her.

39:37 SJ: And she wasn’t in their campaign ever. Was she?

39:41 CH: I don’t think so. No.

39:41 SJ: See, but if she was in their campaign and stopped and then they started doing that.

39:44 CH: That’s different.

39:45 SJ: Maybe, but that’s a lot different.

39:46 CH: Yeah.

39:47 RM: Is this in court now?

39:49 CH: Yes, it’s in court now.

39:51 SJ: Alright.

39:53 CH: Wack move for all the reasons, you guys, I agree.

39:55 SJ: Alright. Woah, we need a special sound when everybody agrees.

[laughter]

39:58 SJ: An old horn sound.

40:00 CH: Yep. Never happens.

40:01 SJ: Alright.

40:02 CH: Last one.

40:02 SJ: Last topic, here we go.

40:05 CH: Alright. So, topic number five. Michigan becomes the first state to ban flavored E-Cigs.

40:13 SJ: That’s across the board though, because I’m always so confused by, oh, they’re banning this one, and those are banned, but these ones are okay, and JUUL because they have the most money. That they can do… [laughter] You know what I mean?

40:25 CH: Yeah, I’m not sure, it’s… They’re not… People are not gonna… You can probably still buy it. You could still buy it online, or whatever, but you can’t, and it’s not like they made them illegal, so if you get caught with it, it’s contraband. Or anything lik that. They’re just saying you can’t sell it at a store.

40:38 RM: Makes sense.

40:40 SJ: I’m gonna go Mack move. Although I hate regulations from government, I think they gotta figure out what’s up with this shit. And I think that there’s way too much money to be made in this industry, and I think there’s just a lot of weird shit happening to where people are trying to jump in and make money, and they’re not using safe products. But I feel that maybe it is safer if you do it the right way. I don’t know. It’s really hard to get the correct message out, as far as what’s going on. I think that there needs to be a lot of testing done on this obviously, but I don’t like the stuff that I’m hearing about kids being in the hospital, and lungs failing, and I really don’t like to hear that, so I do think that somebody needs to step up, and actually do something. So I’m gonna say that it’s a Mack move.

41:23 RM: I’m gonna go Mack move, because Michigan has a lot of low-income households, which ultimately leads to smoking, stuff like that, and a lot of these guys that make these e-cigarettes in those cartridges with the vape oil, or whatever it may be, they’re adding additives which are not… Probably not approved, and they’re mixing it with what is approved. So they’re really saving money by putting in bad stuff in conjunction with the good… With the regular stuff. So, I don’t vape at all, and I just don’t see the purpose of having one of those things. It’s just like cigarettes when they came out. Everybody… They didn’t know, nobody knew.

41:58 SJ: Yeah. That’s what I kept saying.

42:00 RM: But then years later everybody started getting cancer. So I’m gonna go Mack move on that one.

42:03 CH: Yeah. It’s so weird ’cause it’s like you… It’s typically I wouldn’t say Mack move for this, because I don’t think that the government should get involved in this type of stuff, but because of what’s coming out in the news with kids getting sick, and their lungs failing and collapsing. And the fact that they’re targeting younger and younger people with the fruity flavors, ’cause they know that everybody loves that. The same way that the yogurt…

42:26 SJ: Sour patch. Cotton candy.

42:28 CH: Companies make strawberry and banana and have a little monkey. You know what I mean? It’s the same thing, except they’re doing that with an adult product. So I’m going Mack move.

42:40 RM: Yeah.

42:40 SJ: Yeah, yeah.

42:41 CH: Okay.

42:41 SJ: Alright, well, so what did you think about Mack move or whack move?

42:44 RM: I love it, I think it’s a great idea.

42:45 SJ: It was a Mack move.

42:46 RM: I like it. It was a Mack move. It definitely was.

42:49 SJ: Well, hey, listen, we look forward to getting to know you a little more.

42:53 RM: Yeah.

42:53 SJ: Maybe we can have a company bowl off.

42:55 RM: Yeah.

42:55 SJ: That sounds like some team building. We could join in on a little networking team building session or something like that.

43:01 RM: That’d be awesome.

43:02 SJ: Definitely wanna continue to build the relationship. There might be certain people that aren’t good fits for us, that are good fits for you, and just love to just keep going with the entrepreneurial therapy and stuff. And just keep kicking ideas back and forth and get to know you.

43:17 RM: Yeah.

43:18 SJ: So I really appreciate you coming on. Chase is going to go ahead and close us out, and give everybody’s handle, and everybody’s info out here.

43:26 CH: Yep. So, as always, thanks for listening and tuning in everybody. If you’re looking to learn more about Ruan, you can visit his website ruanmarinho.com. Check out his digital marketing agency at Develomark, that’s D-E-V-E-L-O-mark.com, or visit his YouTube channel which has over… Or has about 80,000 subscribers, and has awesome SEO and digital marketing tips. Just search Ruan and Marinho on YouTube and he should pop right up. Ruan, thanks so much for coming by, it was a pleasure having you, man. For all of our listeners, if you wanna find out more about The Mack Talks, how to listen, watch, and subscribe, you could visit our website, www.themacktalks.com. If you love our content, not like it, love it, please leave us a review on iTunes, every review makes a big difference in supporting the show. Subscribe to our YouTube channel, like us on Facebook, follows us on instagram at The Mack Talks. Lets go.

[laughter]

44:20 RM: Perfect ending…

44:21 SJ: Oh, man. Alright, cool, man. Thanks to joining us.

44:24 RM: Thank you for having me.

44:24 CH: Alright, cool.

44:25 SJ: Take care.

[music]